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Dog Park / Sheriff’s Department Rant
We got to the dog park rather late yesterday (later than planned...) and walked around the oval twice, talking to people. The group we were with was going to make another pass, hubby and I decided to just leave as it was getting too dark and seeing was an issue. On the way out we stopped to talk to a really nice couple with a Great Dane that Kyle wanted to play with. We chatted for awhile until we heard a police siren and laughed about how it was apparently time to leave. We knew that the park closed half an hour after sunset- but weren’t all that concerned about. This apparently is where we made our mistake.
As we walked out of the park to our car, chatting with the people- who were on their first visit, so we were talking up the place- the deputy stopped us to ask if we were parked there. We said yes. He informed us that the park closed half an hour after sunset, which we did know. Then he wanted to see the id of one of us (per car).
So yup, we got a ticket from the Ingham County Sheriff Department for being in the park after hours (has a fine of $75)... The Deputy, I might add, was not terribly nice about the whole thing- and couldn't even tell us when sunset officially happened. So if he didn’t know when sunset was- how did he know we were there too late? His smart ass answer, “Sunset’s when the sun goes down.” Duh. However, without being able to see the horizon, are we really expected to know the minute the sun has slipped over it? Or are we supposed to check either a newspaper or website every day so that we know to the minute when the park closes? I also feel bad that the couple we walked out with got a ticket- so the first time they go they end up getting a ticket for staying too long. Would make me want to go back…
I wrote about this (stealing many of the phrases in this post) on a Yahoo! Community I’m on and found out something else. Apparently deputies (because it’s a county park) have been patrolling inside the park and can’t tell the difference between playing dogs and those that are fighting. They’ve actually threatened to SHOOT dogs that are playing, telling the owners to ‘break up the fight or the dogs will be shot.’ Um WTF?! Granted that there was a time when I didn’t really see the difference between play noises and fight noises- but after a few times at the dog park I learned! Kyle makes noise when he plays and sometimes looks like he’s baring his teeth, then he moves, his lips go back to normal and it’s clear that it’s a play thing. The deputies don’t listen to the owners explanation that ‘they’re playing’ and insists the dogs get separated.
A deputy a few days ago was intimidating a woman, who had just arrived, because her Boston Terrier was occasionally humping other dogs. Now this can be a problem, but she was working on training him- and the people there with their dogs were understanding and NOT complaining about it. The dogs getting humped didn’t care either. As an aside- humping dogs are a problem, and they should be stopped as some dogs react badly to it. However, when you can see someone is trying to train their dog you cut them some slack. This guy was telling the woman that she would have to go as her dog was breaking the rules. A lie, as the official posted rules say nothing about humping.
When the park first opened there were a few comments about deputies checking licenses- which I’m good with. In our county in order to get a license you have to have proof that your dog has been vaccinated for rabies. Checking for licenses is fine, we’ve been asked a few times and have shown the licenses on Kyle’s harness, I have no objection to that. However, a deputy stopped a woman and claimed her license was out of date as it said 2006. Her license expires in December, when her dog’s rabies vaccination expires. So every December she renews both. The deputy wasn’t going to believe her, but finally checked in with the office (who had someone check that her story was plausible) and she was allowed in.
I just don't see why the Sheriff's Department is being so awful about this park. I get the checking for licenses- that's fine. But threatening to shoot playing dogs? Writing tickets for leaving the park ten minutes past closing- when the time of closing really is subjective? I'm wondering if a letter should be sent to the Sheriff going over these details. Someone has said they'll let the organization responsible for the park- they're paying for upkeep and so on- know, and has suggested that they need to sit down with the Sheriff's office. I'd love to be in on that meeting. *smirks*
With the after-hours thing, I know that technically we were there too late (the deputy said sunset was 6:45- though he didn't know that off the top of his head and had to check something in his car after being pressed on the issue. He was wrong since according to a Navy astronomy website sunset was 6:44pm. ;) ), however many of us who go to the park are new to the county park thing. Is there no leniency possible? We left just a few minutes after the park closed- it's not like we were trying to stay for another hour. We misjudged when exactly sunset was- if they don't post an exact time do they really expect people to just know? We asked Deputy Stump and his response was 'Well when it's pitch black like this...' Uh yeah, but it wasn't pitch black when we left, it got that way while we were waiting for him to write the ticket! Does the Sheriff's office just not like the idea of the dog park and want to discourage its use?
Just a little frustrated about this. I love going to the park- seeing everyone and giving Kyle a chance to run- but the Sheriff’s deputies seem to be doing their best to ruin it. At least there’s another dog park opening this weekend in East Lansing. I just really liked the space the other one is in, with the trees and the pond.
On a personal whine- Hubby is still out of work. While we're doing okay we certainly do NOT have an extra $75 to pay the fine.
As we walked out of the park to our car, chatting with the people- who were on their first visit, so we were talking up the place- the deputy stopped us to ask if we were parked there. We said yes. He informed us that the park closed half an hour after sunset, which we did know. Then he wanted to see the id of one of us (per car).
So yup, we got a ticket from the Ingham County Sheriff Department for being in the park after hours (has a fine of $75)... The Deputy, I might add, was not terribly nice about the whole thing- and couldn't even tell us when sunset officially happened. So if he didn’t know when sunset was- how did he know we were there too late? His smart ass answer, “Sunset’s when the sun goes down.” Duh. However, without being able to see the horizon, are we really expected to know the minute the sun has slipped over it? Or are we supposed to check either a newspaper or website every day so that we know to the minute when the park closes? I also feel bad that the couple we walked out with got a ticket- so the first time they go they end up getting a ticket for staying too long. Would make me want to go back…
I wrote about this (stealing many of the phrases in this post) on a Yahoo! Community I’m on and found out something else. Apparently deputies (because it’s a county park) have been patrolling inside the park and can’t tell the difference between playing dogs and those that are fighting. They’ve actually threatened to SHOOT dogs that are playing, telling the owners to ‘break up the fight or the dogs will be shot.’ Um WTF?! Granted that there was a time when I didn’t really see the difference between play noises and fight noises- but after a few times at the dog park I learned! Kyle makes noise when he plays and sometimes looks like he’s baring his teeth, then he moves, his lips go back to normal and it’s clear that it’s a play thing. The deputies don’t listen to the owners explanation that ‘they’re playing’ and insists the dogs get separated.
A deputy a few days ago was intimidating a woman, who had just arrived, because her Boston Terrier was occasionally humping other dogs. Now this can be a problem, but she was working on training him- and the people there with their dogs were understanding and NOT complaining about it. The dogs getting humped didn’t care either. As an aside- humping dogs are a problem, and they should be stopped as some dogs react badly to it. However, when you can see someone is trying to train their dog you cut them some slack. This guy was telling the woman that she would have to go as her dog was breaking the rules. A lie, as the official posted rules say nothing about humping.
When the park first opened there were a few comments about deputies checking licenses- which I’m good with. In our county in order to get a license you have to have proof that your dog has been vaccinated for rabies. Checking for licenses is fine, we’ve been asked a few times and have shown the licenses on Kyle’s harness, I have no objection to that. However, a deputy stopped a woman and claimed her license was out of date as it said 2006. Her license expires in December, when her dog’s rabies vaccination expires. So every December she renews both. The deputy wasn’t going to believe her, but finally checked in with the office (who had someone check that her story was plausible) and she was allowed in.
I just don't see why the Sheriff's Department is being so awful about this park. I get the checking for licenses- that's fine. But threatening to shoot playing dogs? Writing tickets for leaving the park ten minutes past closing- when the time of closing really is subjective? I'm wondering if a letter should be sent to the Sheriff going over these details. Someone has said they'll let the organization responsible for the park- they're paying for upkeep and so on- know, and has suggested that they need to sit down with the Sheriff's office. I'd love to be in on that meeting. *smirks*
With the after-hours thing, I know that technically we were there too late (the deputy said sunset was 6:45- though he didn't know that off the top of his head and had to check something in his car after being pressed on the issue. He was wrong since according to a Navy astronomy website sunset was 6:44pm. ;) ), however many of us who go to the park are new to the county park thing. Is there no leniency possible? We left just a few minutes after the park closed- it's not like we were trying to stay for another hour. We misjudged when exactly sunset was- if they don't post an exact time do they really expect people to just know? We asked Deputy Stump and his response was 'Well when it's pitch black like this...' Uh yeah, but it wasn't pitch black when we left, it got that way while we were waiting for him to write the ticket! Does the Sheriff's office just not like the idea of the dog park and want to discourage its use?
Just a little frustrated about this. I love going to the park- seeing everyone and giving Kyle a chance to run- but the Sheriff’s deputies seem to be doing their best to ruin it. At least there’s another dog park opening this weekend in East Lansing. I just really liked the space the other one is in, with the trees and the pond.
On a personal whine- Hubby is still out of work. While we're doing okay we certainly do NOT have an extra $75 to pay the fine.
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What this boils down to is the local Sheriff's department trying to enforce a "police-state" mentality where the "peace officer" is always right, even if they are wrong. That doesn't wash here in the USA - they are supposed to be public SERVANTS, not OVERLORDS.
Fight for your rights, or you will loose them.
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I'm just stunned at the way they're behaving in and around the park. I live near a county park- and I've NEVER seen a sheriff's deputy ticket someone for being their late. And I should add to my post- a woman we know who was iin the group that stayed later, her husband dropped her off so she didn't get cited because she didn't have a car. As she wrote 'apparently it's not illegal to be there after sunset, it's just illegal to park there after sunset.'
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Maybe you can get the "half hour after sunset" overruled because it's too vague. It requires the park users to know pretty much exactly when sunset is and since the time of sunset changes,....
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You're exactly right- if they're going to be hardasses about it- then it's on them to post specifically when the park closes. 'Half hour after sunset' really does leave a lot to an individual's senses. One of the people who was also late out that night was there last night- and she said she though sunset was done when it was fully dark. Which would explain why she thought it was okay to stay longer than we did.
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Makes me wonder if its the departments kind of punishment for some kind of infraction?
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I don't think I should ask the next one I see "Hey, is this a punishment assignment?" huh? ;)
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I believe a letter signed by a group using the park is in order. You guys should ban together.
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*hugs*
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*hugs for you*
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It's a county park too, so the city has little to do with it. I think the big problem is the dog park section. See, the county park is huge and has several pavilions and a 'Splash Pad' for kids, and in one corner is the dog park. The trouble started when the dog park opened.
The group that's nominally 'in charge' has been alerted, and hopefully will do something about it. If not... I may have to become a pain in someone's tookus. ;)
maybe....
I'm just sayin